The Fertility Sisterhood_Episode 2 - Toxicants in your home: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

The Fertility Sisterhood_Episode 2 - Toxicants in your home: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Lara Messerlian:
1 in 6 couples struggle with infertility, and we know that the environment plays a big role in how our bodies reproduce.

Carmen Messerlian:
In the Fertility Sisterhood, join me. Dr. Carmen Messerlian, Harvard epidemiologist and fertility expert, and my sister Lara, as we discuss what everyone needs to know about how the food we eat, the water we drink, the air we breathe, and our everyday environmental exposures impact our health and therefore our fertility.

Lara Messerlian:
Now let's dive in and learn how we can clean up our lifestyles not only for ourselves, but for our future generations.

Lara Messerlian:
Welcome to the Fertility Sisterhood. Cleaning up your lifestyle for future generations. Today we're talking about toxins in your home. So I'm going to give a little backstory, which I think might give some good context into cleaning up your home, the toxins in your home. So a few years ago, when I was just around 35, I decided that I was going to freeze all my eggs or as many eggs as I could get, and I didn't realize what process that was really going to take. At the time, I hadn't met my husband yet, and I felt like I was getting of a certain age where I started to really need to think about my future, and having a child was always something I wanted, and just didn't know how to get there. My sister and I talked about it, and she helped me, supported me during that time to make a decision, and I went through extended amounts of fertility. What's it called?

Carmen Messerlian:
Ovarian stimulation.

Lara Messerlian:
Yes, ovarian stimulation. Like I had to go through six rounds because I could not seem to get any eggs out of my body, and it was so horrible. I went through the first time, and I thought, okay, I can do it once, and I'm going to get a good dozen of eggs. And, you know, like I had heard many women who had done it, and they did it once, and they got like a good solid amount of eggs.

Carmen Messerlian:
A batch of eggs.

Lara Messerlian:
Like a good batch of eggs, exactly. And like, for me, I went, and I did it, and I remember feeling like so nervous. I did all the hormones and the injections and all the stuff that had to get done, and out of all the eggs that I got, the first one I remember had 24 eggs come out, and it, only one of them was viable. And I felt so horrible because I thought, how is it possible that I had 24 eggs come out, and only one of them was actually something that we could freeze and use? And I felt hopeless. I felt really hopeless like, that even freezing my eggs was going to be something that wasn't possible in my sphere and my path in my life, and I wanted so much to have a child. I even considered at the time, because I hadn't met my husband, I remember talking with you, sister, about, I actually looked at sperm donors because I just thought maybe I just need to make some different decisions in my life and have a baby, something that I really want. It's something that I may have to do alone, and so it was so hard, it was such a hard place to be. And after all those treatments that I did, I ended up getting about a dozen. Yeah, I did about six cycles, and each one is so emotionally draining and physically exhausting and tough on the body.

Carmen Messerlian:
Risky for the body.

Lara Messerlian:
I had to go in the early in the mornings before getting to work again. I was living in New York City, there was a lot of stress just in general and toxins just living in the environment and trying to manage like my personal life, and my future and just the wish of having one good egg, so that I can have one baby just sounded a dream that I couldn't fulfill. But anyway, shortly thereafter, because I was having such a hard time doing it, that's when I first really started to make changes in terms of the toxins in my home. And talking to my sister about this, it was something that I hadn't even realized that was important, and you're the one that pushed me to do it. So I think for the people out there who are feeling possibly in that same kind of, maybe being in that kind of place and not knowing how to even start, I've been there too, and I totally understand. And I even have a sister who's an expert in the field, and I still don't even really get it. So, sister, tell me how on earth does anyone detox a home when they're not even sure how to even begin?

Carmen Messerlian:
Those are such important stories that you share, and I want to emphasize that because the story that you share is the story of millions of women across the United States that struggle with fertility concerns, that struggle even to know if they even can have a baby before they've met their partners. And the balance between your career, your education, your socioeconomic status, and trying to find the right partner is just such a challenge and so much pressure on young women today that they face so much uncertainty, and that uncertainty causes a lot of anxiety, and that anxiety causes a lot of stress and the stress causes your body harm. And in addition to that, we are exposed to so many things every day that impacts our reproductive health. And the thing that I want to emphasize here is that it's not just couples trying to get pregnant, that these messages are for, these messages that we're sharing in this podcast are for any person who wants to optimize their reproductive health. Any person that's thinking about getting pregnant in the future, the messages here are for you. It's about optimizing your health and your well-being and doing that for the benefit of your body, the benefit of your eggs, and the benefit of your future potential baby. And all the messages here about how to detox your life, how to improve your environment, what choices to make every day to enhance your own well-being, your own health, are so important. And we want to focus on something important today, which is your home, the toxins in your home, something we have some control over. There's so little things in our environment that we have control over. We don't necessarily have control over the fact that we live in New York City, or we live in Boston, and we have to walk to work or take the subway, or maybe you live in other areas where there's different kinds of air pollutants and other things. You may not have a choice to move houses, but your home is something that you guard with your own sanctity, with your own life, and it's something that you need to be really concerned about, because we know that the chemicals in our home are toxic. There are so many places that I can explain to you today in this episode to share with you on how to detox your home and some key things that you could do right now, today, this week, this month, to improve your home environment. And these are the kinds of things I shared with you, Lara, when you were trying to get pregnant and trying to make eggs, and we want to talk to you more about that.

Lara Messerlian:
So let's talk specifics, because these are things that I did not realize until you came to my home. And you're like, why do you have plugins in your home?

Carmen Messerlian:
Oh my God, the plugins drove me crazy.

Lara Messerlian:
And you're like, why do you have plugins? Why do you have air freshener? Why do you have, very specific, I didn't even realize was something, but you were like, are you crazy? Why do you have these sticking around your house all over? What do you?

Carmen Messerlian:
Oh my God.

Lara Messerlian:
What are you doing?

Carmen Messerlian:
There's a great one. So your home deodorizers, those plugins, those plugins that are Febreeze or whatever company that they are, they put into the wall and they emit scent, okay, and you can also put.

Lara Messerlian:
On aerosol sprays or whatever sprays.

Carmen Messerlian:
Oh yeah, you had aerosol sprays too.

Lara Messerlian:
I know ... at the time. Remember the ...

Carmen Messerlian:
I was like, what the hell is she doing? Very scary for me, knowing that you're trying to get pregnant, that you had these things in your home, and that I knew as a scientist, we know that the chemicals that are associated with fragrance. So in order for the fragrance to bind to the emitting solution, they have to use certain types of chemicals, and those chemicals work really well. So phthalates are one of the ones that we use. Phthalates are either plasticizers or solvents, and in fragrances, or in-home fragrances, or in perfumes, we use solvent-based phthalates to adhere the scent to the product. And when you breathe the air in your home, that smells very beautiful, or maybe not, because I think it smells like a chemical, you are absorbing through your olfactory senses into your nasal passages and into your lungs phthalates, that go into your body that then we can measure. So we can actually measure those chemicals in your urine after you've been exposed to these environments, and we can look at the concentrations in your urine. This is some of the studies that I do at Harvard, and these phthalates are reproductive toxicants, so I'll tell you a little bit about the kinds of work that I've done that higher levels of certain compounds of these phthalates, Dibutyl phthalate is one of them, and Diethylhexyl phthalate is another one. Women that had a higher concentrations of these compounds, the metabolites of these compounds in their urine had lower ovulatory potential, fewer eggs per cycle, a higher risk of miscarriage, a longer time to pregnancy, a higher risk of preterm birth. These chemicals are associated with a host of adverse fertility outcomes, starting from making eggs, starting from the number of eggs you retrieve. In fact, I just read a paper that I was asked to review recently that showed that Dibutyl phthalate in the urine of these women, they had, under the infertility treatment scenario, fewer eggs retrieved. The women that had higher concentrations of the chemicals had fewer eggs retrieved per cycle.

Lara Messerlian:
That could have been like.

Carmen Messerlian:
What you're talking about. Exactly, which is when you go for ovulation stimulation, you stimulate, nothing's being produced because your body has all these other hormones that are counteracting your own natural reproductive endocrine system's capacity to produce these eggs. And so, no fragrance in your home, you should detox your home right now, unplug them all and throw them in the garbage. Do not buy any of those deodorizers for your home.

Lara Messerlian:
So is that candles and.

Carmen Messerlian:
Or in your.

Lara Messerlian:
Room sprays.

Carmen Messerlian:
Room sprays, any type of deodorizer, any type of scented candle, anything in your car that makes your car smell pretty. Anything that has scent to it has phthalates attached to it, and those phthalates are causing harm to your eggs and to your male partner's sperm. These are studies that we've repeated over time in many different settings, and the data is very clear. They result in reduced fertility for male and female.

Lara Messerlian:
I hadn't really understood that back then because it was so emotionally draining to go through all those cycles and not get any eggs and not realize that I was actually doing things that was affecting my outcome and that I could have been more in control of that.

Carmen Messerlian:
Yeah.

Lara Messerlian:
I mean, I'm hoping ...

Carmen Messerlian:
Very upsetting.

Lara Messerlian:
There get to hear this and know, oh my God. Like I can make changes like changes in my home. You can, because I had no clue.

Carmen Messerlian:
So you can do things in your home that allows your body to have a reduced or a decrease in the burden of these chemicals. So the amount of these chemicals in your body, we have many thousands of chemicals in our body every day. Just taking it down a few notches, so decreasing it even by a little bit, 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, you enhance your reproductive capacity by doing that. You're not going to be in the high-exposure category, you could be in the middle or the low category, which is a benefit to your health and to your fertility. So the fragrance in your home, get rid of all of it. If you're trying to get pregnant or trying to harvest eggs or planning a pregnancy, start now by removing every single solitary spray or aerosol or deodorizer in your home, including scented candles. No brainer, that's an easy one. We can move on to your kitchen? We can move on to all kinds of rooms. You tell me which one you want to go.

Lara Messerlian:
Okay, so, yeah, I'm going to go to the kitchen next because obviously, it's something where you're preparing your food and you're thinking you're being healthy sometimes and you're not even realizing the dish soap you're using or countertop spray that you're using is actually problematic. A lot of people, including myself, use countertop spray to polish your counters and your backsplashes and all of that, and you're actually exposing your food to all these chemicals.

Carmen Messerlian:
Yes, another one. Another one is everything you use in your kitchen to clean your kitchen and to make food has to be examined very critically. So here's the rule number one, no plastic in your kitchen, period end. Go into your kitchen and get rid of.

Lara Messerlian:
And heating plastic, too, because people are very guilty, and I was also guilty of reheating my food in plastic containers.

Carmen Messerlian:
Taking your takeout and putting it back in the microwave in the plastic that it came in is a big no-no. So here are a couple tips. First, no more plastic in your kitchen. Go in your kitchen, get rid of all your plastic. Replace your plastic with wood, stainless steel, and glass. No more sous vide cooking. Sous vide cooking is cooking food in plastic. Not a good idea. No heating anything in the microwave that's in plastic, also a no-no. No more plastic containers to store your food, also no-no. No more plastic spatulas to flip your eggs and bacon and any other food that you're making.

Lara Messerlian:
Or non-stick stuff.

Carmen Messerlian:
Also another one, so nonstick frying pans, nonstick cookware, nonstick bakeware. Anything that has a coating on it is covered in another class of chemicals called perfluorinated chemicals or p-fas chemicals, we talked about them in episode one. P-fas chemicals are different than phthalates. Phthalates stay in your body for about 7 to 12 hours, they metabolize very quickly, but then you're repeatedly exposed to them, every single hour you could be exposed to them, every time you eat food you'd be exposed to them, but your body is really good at getting rid of them. Also harmful because you're chronically exposed to them. P-fas chemicals that can be found in nonstick frying pans, nonstick cookware, nonstick bakeware, anything that has a nonstick coating in it has p-fas in it. Those p-fas are called forever chemicals. Forever chemicals, the reason why they've been given that name is because they stay in your body for 2 to 10 years, and they're really hard to get rid of once they're in your body, and once they're in your body, they can cause harm. They can cause harm to your reproductive health. We have some new studies that are showing effects on sperm and reproductive success in couples. We know that it causes babies to be born lower birth weight, and these chemicals are also carcinogenic, they cause cancer across male and females, across men and women, and they're associated with thyroid cancers and a whole host of other cancers, including kidney cancers and liver cancers. So we do not want p-fas in our bodies. So get rid of your nonstick frying pans and non-stick bakeware, replace them with stainless steel, cast iron, or use aluminum baking products and butter them up, use butter and coat them with butter and flour and forget the nonstick. It might make your life a tiny bit easier, but the impact on your body is lifelong, and.

Lara Messerlian:
It's just a learning process because my frying pan now, I got rid of all the nonstick stuff and now, you know, when I cook eggs, for example, when I'm making scrambled eggs, like you just have to put butter on the non-stick stuff, on the.

Carmen Messerlian:
A stick of butter.

Lara Messerlian:
Yeah, I have like stainless steel, and you just have to put butter, and it's a it's a learning process, because at first, everything's stuck to it, and I'm like, oh my God, this is so annoying. Now you just want to revert back to what's easy, right? But then was like, No, I just have to learn how to work with this new material. And now I make great scrambled eggs that have butter, and they're, they don't stick to the pan.

Carmen Messerlian:
.... wooden spoon, and flip it with.

Lara Messerlian:
Wooden spoons, yeah.

Carmen Messerlian:
... spatula or a metal spatula. These things do the job better. A, they're better for your health. B, they're better for the environment. You're not honestly, adding to the environment, these plastics end up being worn and torn and end up back in the landfills and then back into our water, back into the water that we drink through microplastics, which is a whole other issue we're going to talk about in a while.

Lara Messerlian:
So let's talk water, then. That's something that I actually took very seriously, especially living in New York. I know everyone says the water there is very healthy, but for me, I felt that, you know, I didn't like the idea that I was taking my water and filling it into one of these plastic jugs and then putting that into the fridge and then drinking water that essentially is been sitting in plastic for 24 hours or 12 hours or whatever. So I found this system for me, I was renting, so it's a metallic stainless steel system that sits on your counter, and you pour water through it, it gets filtered, and then I would put that into a glass jar, a glass jug or whatever, and then put that into the fridge. So let's talk about how our water is either healthy or unhealthy. And I think a lot of people don't even consider is, you're drinking water often out of the house in plastic containers. So you're getting, you're buying bottled water in a plastic container. Sometimes it's even warm, it's been sitting in a car or something, and you're drinking it. And I think it's another source of potential toxins that you're not even thinking about, you're just, you don't realize that you've just drank a bunch of really terrible chemicals. Looks like fresh water to you, that's full of terrible chemicals that are actually affecting your outcome in terms of egg quality and ability to conceive and all the stuff that I went through myself. So tell me a little bit about that, Carmen.

Carmen Messerlian:
Yes, so with your water, it's so important. The water we drink is the biggest exposure we have every single day. We should be drinking about 5 to 6 liters of water a day, and that can come in the form of coffee sometimes in my case, or beer, but let's just call it water for now. And what we know in the United States of America, even though we're a very developed nation, that our water is contaminated, and we don't have to be living in Flint, Michigan, to be exposed to extraordinary levels of chemicals. And the EPA tries to regulate these chemicals through setting safe limits for certain types of exposures, but we know that the safety limits set by the EPA do not reach the standards that we see in Europe and other countries, the thresholds are higher for what they consider safe, and this is a big problem. And I've worked with agencies in the government to try to set safety standards around these things. It's really important to pay attention to your water, as I said, it's because it's our number one source of exposure every single solitary day for our entire lives. We are reliant on water to live.

Lara Messerlian:
So how can you get safe water if we're living in a place that doesn't provide really access to safe water?

Carmen Messerlian:
That's a question. The question is, first of all, is just telling you a little bit about what's in the water. So what's in the water? We've seen, like I said, in Michigan, where there was exposure to lead, everybody's water in this country is exposed to lead, perfluorinated chemicals, disinfection byproducts, a whole host of other types of metals including arsenic, contaminants of all kinds including microplastics. Our water is highly contaminated because our environment's highly contaminated, our environment's highly contaminated because we live in an environment that's industrialized. There's air pollutants that end up in the water that we drink and the sources of water, which ends up in our tap. But even when we go through the water filtration system in a big city like New York or LA, the water filtration system is there for used to be able to disinfect the water. Disinfection is really important, we don't want bacteria in our water, but the process of disinfection actually introduces a whole host of chemical species called disinfection byproducts. And my lab is one of the biggest labs in the country that studies the effects of disinfection byproducts. What we've seen in the studies is that these, when you add chlorine or bleach, for lack of a better word, to the water to get rid of the bacteria, what gets formed is these disinfection byproducts, and we know that they're extremely toxic to our health, they're toxic to our children's health, they're toxic to our reproductive health, they're toxic to fetal health. I've got a study that shows that there's differences in the size of the fetus based on how much exposure you have to these chemicals, and we've measured them in blood and in urine. And we know that impacts sperm and egg quality as well. They're also highly carcinogenic, they cause cancer, and they cause us to die prematurely. So we want to decrease the exposure to these chemicals through our water. How are we going to do that? If you can afford a very expensive system like yours, that's great, that's the state-of-the-art method. But not everybody can afford those kinds of methodologies, those kinds of, the machine that you bought or that thing is fairly pricey. It's in the, I can't even really afford it. It's what, $1,000 or something. I don't even have that, and I study this stuff, so I'm really guilty of it because I live in an apartment and rent and I can't change what water is coming in, and so I do a really bad method. I don't use the state-of-the-art method, but.

Lara Messerlian:
Don't you have a filtration system already set up in your home?

Carmen Messerlian:
There is filtration set up in the home, but there's different types of filtration, different types of filtration take out different things in your water. So if you want to take out the phthalates and the phenols and the perfluorinated chemicals and the lead and everything else that we know is toxic, including the disinfection byproducts, you need a strong system. You need the kind of system that we talked about. We have pamphlets on my website at Harvard that talks more about water contamination, the kinds of ways you could swap out things in your home, so we could share that with the listeners to the podcast. There are methods that are more affordable, and even though the kinds of products that you mentioned that are simplified carbon-based methods, they filter some chemicals out, not all chemicals out, but some filtration is better than no filtration. So I always say start somewhere, it's better than nowhere. And if you can afford the state-of-the-art one, that's great because you're going to get rid of as many chemicals as you can, and doing so has great impact on how much you are exposed because you're drinking that water every single day from that tap, and filtering through something before you drink it is really important for you and your partner and your children's health.

Lara Messerlian:
That's what I was going to say next is, you know what? As a mom, how do you feel about like the fact that.

Carmen Messerlian:
My teenage son, who is really big on this stuff and is more of a nerd on it than I am, is petrified. The fact that I don't use it, you don't practice what you preach in your home, and you're exposing my body. He gets all worked up over it because he's a teenage boy who's trying to build testosterone, build muscles and he's athletic and stuff. Parents, it's challenging because you can't if you live in an apartment, you can't really change the system that's there unless you have a really good relationship with the landlords. I'm fixed. If I own the home, maybe I would install something that's much more aggressive in terms of its filtration, but not everybody has that choice. Americans live on all kinds of incomes. I think if you can't do anything using a simple system that's carbon-based with a filter, taking the water that's filtered through that's in a plastic jug, transfer it into a glass jug. All my water goes into the fridge in a glass jug, it never goes into a plastic jug, ever. I store the water in the fridge. I keep it in glass, and I keep refilling those jugs up with glass, and I never drink out of plastic. You raised a really good point, I think it's one of the most important points in the water question that we're talking about. So the water coming out of your tap is important, but we're not at home a lot. People who work are outside of the home, people who are traveling and working and exposing themselves to different environments, workplaces or gyms or schools or wherever they're at. Take water wherever they can, and a lot of.

Lara Messerlian:
Even the water coolers are.

Carmen Messerlian:
The water coolers, the ones that are coming in with big plastic jugs that are heated or cooled. Those are sitting in those plastic jugs all day long, and microplastics break down, the plastic breaks down on the lining of the plastic, and it sits there. Just think it's been sitting there maybe for a couple of days before it gets emptied, but before it gets to that tank, it's been transported on a truck. It's been made months before it gets to your cooler. And so that water is sitting in a big, huge plastic container for two, three, four weeks, maybe a month before it ends up in your glass or in your cup. And then you go, and you take your plastic container, and you fill it up. ...

Lara Messerlian:
Have you ever tested any of those water coolers? I'm just curious.

Carmen Messerlian:
We haven't necessarily tested them, but we know that the water has microplastics in it. We know that it's got contamination. Even the filtered water that comes from whatever the companies are that make that, there's a whole bunch of big branded companies, first of all, using, like I said in the first episode, taking a stainless steel or glass container with you everywhere you go to fill up whatever you're drinking is a really good idea. So even if you go to sweet greens and you're getting a juice that's coming out of the fountain, put it in a glass or stainless steel cup, don't drink it out of the plastic container, don't drink it out of plastic straws. Avoid plastic contact any time that you're eating or drinking. When you're going to buy plastic bottled water, I do it very rarely, but occasionally I do. It's not ideal, but sometimes you're in the airport, and you have to drink whatever you're.

Lara Messerlian:
That's why I drink carbonated water in glass bottles.

Carmen Messerlian:
So carbonated water is a good choice. Carbonated water is a good choice, comes naturally from the source. And I'm not trying to freak people out, but even by the time it gets into your glass jar that you're drinking, San Pellegrino or whatever it is that you're drinking, it goes through plastic to get into that jar. So there's tubes, and those tubes are PVC, and those PVC tubes have DEHP, and the DEHP has Diethylhexyl phthalate, which is one of the biggest reproductive toxicants that we have the most science on. So you can't control that, but you can control the cup that you put your drink in. You can control the water that you have in your home. You can buy a simple filter or a more expensive filter. You can choose not to drink from the water fountains. You can bring your cup with you and get one of those things that are at the automated filters that come straight from the water fountains that have already built-in filtration systems in it, I know, I have that at my gym. There are ways that you can reduce your exposure, and some reduction is better than no reduction. You don't have control over everything. You don't have control of how your beverage was made when it gets into the glass bottle, that looks pretty, but you do have control over how you choose the water that you drink. And making good choices and having knowledge about these sources of exposure to these chemicals and the fact that they are harmful to your health is really important. And again, we have pamphlets on all these topics on my website at Harvard SEED-Program.org, and we're happy to share those with you, and you can read about them, and we can have some more information about that.

Lara Messerlian:
So far, we talked about just a few ways that you can make changes in your everyday life. So no scented plug-ins and candles, no air fresheners and in-room sprays, no water in plastics, no plastic food containers for your food. Don't reheat anything in plastic. Don't use plastic when you're out of the house. Use stainless steel or glass as much as you can. So these are all things that we have control over that we can do, small simple changes that actually can have a big effect at the end of the day and big effect in terms of the results that you're able to achieve. And in my case, as I said, I had a lot of big hill to climb when it came to fertility and infertility specifically. And I'm one person who made all these changes after listening to my sister hound me many times, I cut out all of these things out of my life, and I was very blessed to actually have a child in my 40s, which is something that I never dreamed I would be able to do. I made these significant changes, and I think I went through a major detox, and then, I was actually able to conceive a child. And the reason I'm mentioning that is because, one, that there is obviously hope for people. If it can happen to me, then hopefully, it can happen to a lot of women out there who may not realize that they're making decisions that actually affect their outcome and may feel a little hopeless and also a little out of that, it's out of their control. It actually there could be some things that you can do that can help you. But the other thing that I wanted to mention, the reason I mentioned a child, is it wasn't until I actually was pregnant and having a child that I really even took it further. The household soap and detergents and the chemicals that I was using in my home, I really had no idea it was different when I was doing it for my own well-being. It was an entirely different scenario when I thought, Oh my God, I don't want my little baby girl to have problems with her fertility and her exposure, and she's got a growing body. What is it that I can do? What soaps am I using in my kitchen or in my bathrooms, or what cleaning detergents am I using that could be potentially exposing her? She's playing on the floor. She's eating off the table, as kids do. And was an entirely different scenario when I had to realize I have to protect her ability to conceive and her ability to reproduce when she is of age. So let's talk a little bit about household soaps and detergents and cleaning supplies and things like that, as I mentioned, I go to a site, and I would check almost everything that I would put near her body because, in my body, because I just couldn't have the thought of her going through something that I've gone through and her exposure as a young body, as it developed, I want to make sure that when she is of age, that, you know, she has, she hasn't been exposed throughout her entire life. I feel like we have a lot more exposure now than we did when you and I were growing up. So can you tell me a little bit about that? And I can, I'll share more stories of.

Carmen Messerlian:
No, I love your story. It's so valuable to hear this because, A, isn't it interesting how you took it more seriously when it was about your child than about yourself?

Lara Messerlian:
Way more seriously. Like myself, it's okay, fine, a little bit of perfume isn't going to kill me. Okay, fine. I'm going to use, like, my fancy shampoo.

Carmen Messerlian:
I was like, smell bad. It's okay.

Lara Messerlian:
Or my deodorant. Like, okay. You know, it's fine.

Carmen Messerlian:
It's so important what you're saying because there's a couple of things I want to touch upon, as one that you were so motivated when it came to your baby and her fertility. But what's really interesting here, and what I want to share with the listeners is that your baby's fertility happens. You made some great assumptions. It's true that the exposures after she's born and what she's exposed to as a little child will impact her reproductive health across her life and her health span and lifespan. So what she's exposed to in her home right now is going to impact your daughters and your sons, your future daughter's and your future son's health across your life. We have science on that. But what's even more interesting and what very few people know is that her health or your son's future health, that health is actually determined by your partner's preconception health and your preconception health. So what you're doing when you make that egg and what you're doing when you make that sperm will actually have an impact on your offspring, your child's fertility, and their health across life. What we're trying to say here is scientists, people in my shoes, a Harvard professor who studies this for a living is, your child's health begins in the preconception window. The preconception window is the time when you're planning a pregnancy or trying to get pregnant. That's when you have the greatest opportunity to improve your health, and it's a window of greatest susceptibility because it's the time when the egg and the sperm are being formed and generated, and that little embryo is being made. And so if you wait till you're pregnant and know you're pregnant, you've already formed so much of the embryo, and the eggs that inform that baby have already been determined, and the sperm too. So start in the preconception window when you're planning or trying to get pregnant, try to detox your home, and try to modify those exposures, those sources of exposure. You touched on some really important ones. The floor that she's lying on and eating on and playing on and walking on. Her feet are absorbing, her child's feet, or your feet are absorbing chemicals off the floor when you walk barefoot. So if you're putting chemicals that you're washing your floors with that are toxic, transdermal absorption, which means through the skin, when you're touching your floor all day, walking barefoot, there's what we call skin-related absorption, and that goes into your bloodstream. So if you're putting chemicals in the soap, that's for your whatever it is, the brand that you use to clean your floors with, that's going into your bloodstream, that is going into your bloodstream, and we know it's going into the bloodstream, we've measured this.

Lara Messerlian:
So like, even the, not just the floor, but even like the bathtub.

Carmen Messerlian:
The countertops, bathtubs. If you spray your countertop with a whole bunch of stuff and then you cut your apple on it, your cup, your mango on it, you cut your banana on it, or you do whatever, your child is playing with it, or you're touching the countertop. There's transfer between the contact material, which is the countertop, and the actual food. So that's another source of exposure, is through the food from the counter or through the skin from the floor chemical or through the aerosol, and you're spraying your windows, you're spraying your glass mirrors, and you're spraying it with aerosol, you're spraying it with some product.

Lara Messerlian:
What about like bathroom cleaner?

Carmen Messerlian:
Yeah, all of that. You're breathing that in. So there's another.

Lara Messerlian:
If you take a bath and you've washed it with a chemical, and then you've rinsed it, is it not rinsed enough?

Carmen Messerlian:
Not rinsed perfectly, you're absorbing it through your skin, and that's less. You have to think about concentration. If you're breathing it into your lungs, you're spraying it with an aerosol spray. Even if it's not aerosol, you're spraying some type of window cleaner or some type of bathroom cleaner. Some of that's going into your lungs. You could taste it, and you could breathe it. You could smell it, you could smell it, it means it's going into your body. So anything that's going into your nose that you could scent is going into your body. So here are some tips. Stop using chemical-based products, period end. Swap them out for green-based cleaners. There's dozens of companies now in the market that produce safer alternatives. There's lots of brands you can Google, some of them are very affordable, some of them are actually cheap or cheaper than what you can get for the big branded companies that are made by pharmaceutical companies. So swap them out, get rid of them, no more. If you can't even afford that, use bleach, or use vinegar and water, as a great cleaner. Baking soda, another great cleaner. Don't use.

Lara Messerlian:
Like alcohol.

Carmen Messerlian:
Alcohol, another great cleaner. I don't have cleaners in my house, very little, very few at all. Stainless steel cleaners of any kind that you're putting on your beautiful stainless steel fridge to make it look beautiful. Really toxic, don't touch it, don't go near it. Aerosol sprays we already talked about. Use anything that you purchase as unscented. Don't buy anything with scent, and if you could buy something with no scent and no color, you're better off. So when you wash your hands with soap, do not use the soap that's got phthalates and phenols in it. Get the green-based soaps that are based from companies that are safer alternatives, use unscented as often as you can. Same thing with your detergent for your laundry and same thing for your dish soap. Use green-based products that have no scent or color or that are called phthalate-free or phenol-free.

Lara Messerlian:
What if you're, because I just bought some green, it's a German brand of dishwashing liquid and soaps, hand soaps, that I thought was actually very healthy, but it has essential oils, is that okay? Like it has for scent? It has like an essential oil.

Carmen Messerlian:
So anything that's got a very strong scent, I avoid. Like anything that's got scent for that scent to be adhered to, that product, so for your soap to have that essential oil in it, they're adding a solvent, a phthalate in there to keep, detach that essential oil into the liquid product, they add a phthalate solvent to keep it together and so essential.

Lara Messerlian:
So I'm throwing it out, basically.

Carmen Messerlian:
You can use, just the less scent you have in your house, the better. Anything that has scent is chemical, period, end. There's just no way to get it that way. Essential oils, yes, I can see that if you're actually using the essential oil directly with an almond-based oil or something, I think that's probably safer. But really, the simple thing is just you don't need scent in your house. Reduce the products that you have sent in them, have detergents that are clear and free, the clear and free products are way better, and have less chemicals in them. They're not pure. They're not safe 100%, but they're safer, and you're decreasing the amount of chemical in your body. We are a chemical soup. Our bodies are chemical soups. We're exposed to so many sources that we have no control over. You have control over your soap. You have control over your detergent. You have control over your dish soap. You have control over the products in your home that you clean with. You don't need these things. You can use vinegar on your floors to make them just as clean with water. You can use baking soda. You can use, there's other forms of soaps that you could purchase.

Lara Messerlian:
I found a brand that I really like that I think I told you go to the EWG website. This beauty database that they have and they also have a household cleaner, household products, and they have EWG-certified products. And I found this brand that I really like that I think cleans really well, and I'm assuming it's healthy, it's EWG-certified.

Carmen Messerlian:
So yeah, nothing's healthy, it's just safer, but yeah.

Lara Messerlian:
Safer, yeah. So can I trust that the things that are.

Carmen Messerlian:
Like, I trust EWG, they do really good science and research. They have chemical databases, and they look at the cast numbers, which is the chemical numbers that are attached to these chemicals and they analyze each product and they give it a score. It's science-based, science-backed, and I trust it, and I should rely on it more myself. I just try to limit as much, limit the number of products in your home, period end, first thing. Second thing, when you do buy something that's on the EWG database as being low exposure or low harm to reproductive health, low harm to carcinogen child health, and buy things that are unscented. If you don't want to do the work, just buy things that are from a green-based company that's cheap from whatever grocery store you go to, there's always a choice, and buy those products and stick to them. They may not work as perfectly as the ones that are the branded ones from Big Pharma that produces them, but guess what? They're not harming your body. They are not harming your body, and they're not harming your health, and they're not harming your fertility, and making these changes will impact and improve your health. These are called endocrine-disrupting chemicals for a reason. They disrupt the systems in your body that are associated with your reproductive function for your male partner and for you. And the health of your child starts before you get pregnant, it's in the eggs and the sperm that you're making. And then, last point I want to make is that your daughter or your child's health, when they're exposed as a little child, is also a way of protecting them in the future. So not exposing them when they're little kids will actually help them get healthier eggs and sperm when they become adults that want to conceive. But that actually was determined, before your pregnancy was determined.

Lara Messerlian:
When we conceived, before we conceived even, which for my case, I was really lucky because I went through a major detox, and my husband and I were at the peak of our health.

Carmen Messerlian:
Yeah.

Lara Messerlian:
I think the two of us were super fit. We were really healthy, we were eating quite well. We had detoxed, like I had detoxed severely.

Carmen Messerlian:
Yes, I know, but it took years for you to do that, to get the message in. This is why we're trying to raise this now with more direct messaging. And these are not messages meant to scare you, these are meant messages meant to empower people to add value to their lives by making healthier choices in the areas they do have control over. And again, we can share some more material with you, if this is something that helps you, and we want to encourage you to find ways that can optimize your health.

Lara Messerlian:
And as I say, this is about information and inspiration. Both my sister gives wonderful information and inspiration, and in my case, I'm hoping that just one example, one woman can show that making significant changes and being really aware can really make a big difference, and you might actually end up having a positive outcome like I did. So I'm hoping that women who hear this can know that there is a chance that the things that you do without realizing you're doing it can actually help you achieve an outcome and have a child that you're looking to have in your life. And hopefully, that's some inspiration for you all.

Carmen Messerlian:
That is inspiration-information. The other thing is that all these changes will impact your health, even not just your fertility health, it impacts your overall health. It decreases your risk of cancer, it decreases your risk of infection, even things like COVID infection. We have studies that show that these kinds of chemicals that we're talking about, p-fas chemicals and the disinfection byproduct chemicals cause inflammation in your body and actually result in you having a poor performance to vaccines, a lesser response to vaccination if you have higher exposure to these chemicals, and so your body does not produce as many antibodies when it's exposed to the vaccine. So not just for your fertility, but for your health, for your health and well-being across your life, that your health, the healthier you are before you get pregnant, the healthier are during your pregnancy, the healthier you are after your pregnancy. These are all related and the better off you're going to be to take care of your child with more less risk of infection, less risk of bad outcomes like cardiovascular disease and cancer, and other things that are chronic diseases that we have to be mindful of. So protecting your fertility and protecting your health go hand in hand.

Lara Messerlian:
I think this is really helpful not just for the listeners, hopefully, but for myself too, because now I'm going to put on my more critical vision and view on all this, and I'm going to go around my house again and just make sure that I hadn't slipped up here or there, make sure that nothing in the house is problematic for my family.

Carmen Messerlian:
And I don't want people to feel guilty because I'm a scientist that studies this for a living. And I have my kids eat out of pizza boxes, and my kitchen's not perfect. I don't have many times in the week where, as a single mother trying to make do day to day, might, I have to rely on expediency with food, we do take out, it's in plastic. I bend the rules all the time. The general thing is that you have to trend towards more health than you trend towards poor health. So you should always lean towards more likely to be healthy than not. And so if you always trend upwards to the health-promoting stuff, you're on the right track and you can it's not a linear thing. It's back and forth and it's okay to sometimes cut curves and we don't want people to feel guilty. An area that we forgot to mention was the tin foil. I use tin foil in my kitchen. There's no saran wrap in my kitchen.

Lara Messerlian:
Yeah me too.

Carmen Messerlian:
In my kitchen.

Lara Messerlian:
I don't have saran wrap, or any kind of wrap.

Carmen Messerlian:
No, you don't need wrap, and you just put things in glass containers and you don't need all these plastic tupperwares. And tin foil is really easy and simple and it's less exposure to plastic for you.

Lara Messerlian:
Or like those bags. Those plastic bags.

Carmen Messerlian:
Ziplocs, I've never used them. You don't need Ziploc bags and don't use the plastic versions of them. If they now make that they are durable and last ten times, no.

Lara Messerlian:
Oh, what about the silicone ones?

Carmen Messerlian:
No, don't use them.

Lara Messerlian:
Yeah, I don't, but.

Carmen Messerlian:
Look silicone is, not doesn't have the chemicals that we're talking about in it, but we don't know how pure those products are, and they're upcycled products, not pure of anything. Nothing that we make with plastic is pure and they're petrol. A lot of these things are petroleum based. A lot of plastic products are petroleum based. That is a whole other level of stuff that we haven't talked about. We can go into that another time, but the point is just limit what you have in your kitchen that's not wood glass, or stainless steel, limit it, that's it. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just limit it and try to decrease your exposures wherever you have choice in the simple ways and just being aware of what you're doing, just being aware is really important.

Lara Messerlian:
Great to hear. So let's sum up quickly. Make changes in your house. No aerosol sprays, no scented candles, no scented products, no scented, unscented, and free and clear detergents and body soaps. And don't use plastic for your water containers. Filter your water very carefully if you can, but put it into a jug that is glass and put that glass into the fridge. Make changes in terms of how you're wrapping your food. Don't use plastics, put them into glass containers, put them into stainless steel, and don't use plastic wraps. Try to use tin foil or any kind of aluminum. When you're using, cooking, stainless steel when you're cooking and no plastic utensils when you're cooking, and nonstick, don't use nonstick products.

Carmen Messerlian:
Nonstick is a big no-no, don't use anything nonstick, no bakeware, no cookware, no fry pans, nothing. So anything that's got the coating on it, you should know.

Lara Messerlian:
Yeah, no coated, no coating. Just use some butter. So if you start to make small changes like this, you could end up having a different outcome in terms of what you're looking to achieve for your health and your reproduction. And then also, as you listen along, we're going to talk about more changes that you can make that will hopefully impact and change your outcome in terms of your health and reproduction plan and path. And thank you all for listening to us. We're very grateful to be here and we're very grateful to share our information and inspiration.

Carmen Messerlian:
I love it. And stay tuned, and we're really looking forward to continuing to share our knowledge with all of you. Next time we're going to be talking about food for fertility and eating for fertility. So we look forward to sharing that episode with you.

Lara Messerlian:
Bye, ciao!

Carmen Messerlian:
Bye, sis! Love you.

Carmen Messerlian:
Thank you for listening to The Fertility Sisterhood, brought to you by Rescripted. We hope it has left you feeling more educated and empowered about the role environmental factors play in our reproductive health.

Lara Messerlian:
If you've enjoyed this week's episode, be sure to visit SEED-Program.org to learn more about Dr. Messerlian's research. To stay up to date on the podcast, follow Rescripted on Instagram and TikTok at @Fertility.Rescripted or head to Rescripted.com.

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