SFA_Sandra Lanshin Chiu: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

SFA_Sandra Lanshin Chiu: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Missy Modell:
Welcome to Sorry for Apologizing. I'm your host, Missy Modell: activist, strategist, and recovering chronic apologizer. In this podcast, we'll explore all of the ways women have been conditioned by society to play small. Whether it's being expected to have children, tolerate chronic pain, or accept gender inequities from orgasms to paychecks. This season, we'll work to challenge the cultural beliefs that brought us here and discuss all of the reasons why we should be asking for forgiveness rather than permission. It is time to stop apologizing.

Missy Modell:
Hi, I'm Missy. I'm 36 years old, and I've never done Botox. I'm one of the only ones out of my friends, and honestly, I've had this internal battle with myself at least once every other week since I've turned 30. Society has condemned aging, offering constant cures, needles, creams to prevent it from its inevitable coming. And now, with social media, it seems that Botox fillers and lasers are just simply an expected part of your regimen. The North American anti-aging market was worth $18.34 billion in 2023. Also, something notable, stats have shown that 92% of all cosmetic procedures in the US were done on female patients. So why are women seemingly the sole target of this campaign against getting older? What happens if we don't abide by the rules? Today, I sit down with a woman who W Magazine said fills in the gaps of Western medicine, a person who is devoting her life to well-aging, a world-renowned acupuncturist and TCM practitioner, my dear friend Sandra Lanshin.

Missy Modell:
Hello.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Hello!

Missy Modell:
Do you like that intro?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Yes, I'm blushing.

Missy Modell:
And it's hot in New York.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Thank you. And it's hot, so I'm sweating a little too.

Missy Modell:
Obviously, knowing you for a while now, but doing a bit of digging on you on the internet.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Oh my!

Missy Modell:
Right? W Magazine said it really correctly, and they said that you fill in the gaps of Western medicine. What does that mean? Because it's so accurate for people that don't know, that's even something that needed to have gaps filled. What does that mean?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Well, Chinese medicine fills in the gaps, and so myself and all of the Chinese medicine practitioners shout out to all of us, because it's hard work to become a Chinese medicine practitioner. But I think that what that means is that is a certain way that Western medicine approaches the care of your body and the care of when it's disordered and when there's disease, how to treat that, and that's where its focus mostly lies, is in how to bring a person back from a disease state. When you train to be a doctor, that's usually what they're trained in. Now, I'm not an expert in medical doctors' training, but my understanding is that they learn about different diseases, how to diagnose them, and how to treat them. It's, as somebody once put it, it's a disease care system, but there are so many other states that a person can experience in their health that is not at the extreme degree of an actual disorder. In China, actually, there's this term they say it's subhealth, like S U B health. So it's the sublevel of health that you wouldn't find on a lab test or any kind of medical diagnostic exam, but it describes you're not well, right? And this, I think, is where Western medicine doesn't have a lot of great answers because it doesn't have a paradigm where they can see the reality that we live in these other states of well-being. There's well-being, and then there's disease state, and then there's in-between. So Chinese medicine treats the in-between really well, and it has vision for it. It has a recognition for it. So that's why we know how to treat it. That's why something like constipation is an issue. No, you don't have disease, but it's something we should treat, and that we should try to restore the healthy functioning of your bowels. That would be a worthy thing to spend time and effort treating, right? It's so sometimes in Western it's, you know, whatever, it's fine.

Missy Modell:
But then, what you just made me realize, it's the opposite for beauty. With beauty, we need to treat everything. We need to treat our lines, we need to treat wrinkles, we need to treat untextured skin. But with how our body is functioning, we ignore it.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
With Western medicine, or at least the Western approach to beauty, they want to treat everything that is visible, but they don't see any of that as coming from internal. Or maybe they do a little bit like maybe they understand, Oh, there's a collagen deficiency, that's inevitable as you get older. But there's, in Chinese medicine, it's not necessarily inevitable, and there are ways that you can take care of your body and your health so that certain signs of aging are either delayed or don't show up at certain times in your life because you're taking good care of your body and your circulation is good and your the strength of your Chi is good, and so those things tend not to show up prematurely if you're taking care of your body and if you understand how to take care of your body so that all of your systems and all the healthy functioning of your organs, of your hormones, all of that of your skin, are all in working order.

Missy Modell:
And you talk a lot about aging, of course. And I just wanted to know, what is your definition of aging?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
A life process, I mean, it's a certainty. Aging is a certainty. It's a reality. And I think that aging is life, right? It's life. And I say it that way because I think we need to, is that too strong, and we need to, I would like to see us as a culture stop being averse to aging because it's life. I mean, there's literally, in life, there's so many uncertainties. We have a plan, we're not certain if that plan will unfold according to plan, but if there's anything that's certain, it's that we're going to age and that we're going to die. And not to be morose, but why not talk about that? Because that's an important part of living, is to know that that is the natural course of our lives in this body. And so we have to deal with that reality and not try to push against it and resist it, or at least not use our energy that way. I mean, you can if you want, right? I'm not here to say that you should do anything that I'm saying. I'm just saying if we really think about it, is that the best use of our energy? Because we only have so much energy while we're here in this body, and do we want to be constantly concerned about the negative aspects of aging or what has been wired into us as the negative aspects of aging? Which is, you know, the lines and sagging and whatever it is that gets people into the facial, the facelifts surgeon's office, right? I don't want to invalidate people that make that decision either, I think that's important, but I also just want to start another conversation that, where we ask ourselves, is that the best use of our energy, you know, to be worried about that constantly? And I think for some of us, we feel that way, right? I mean, how many of your peers and yourself even, if you really were honest about how worried you are or concerned you are or how stressed you are on a scale of 1 to 10 about aging, when you look in the mirror as you get older, like to what extent do you feel stressed? Like, honestly.

Missy Modell:
I'm honestly pretty stressed about it, and I think I have friends who even tell me, Missy, you'll get some Botox, like all the time. Oh yeah. One of my best friends said to me the other day, Yeah, you can get a little Botox under your eyes and your Crow's Feet. And by the way, I'd love for people that don't follow Sandra, do it right now or right after the podcast, but you put out a video that called it Joy Lines instead of Crow's Feet, and I swear on my life, I looked in the mirror, and I saw my little furrowed brow, and I reframed it. And I began to, like, kind of show it a little; I showed it love instead of being angry at the lines.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Yeah, we have to do this for ourselves because the mental anguish that happens when we talk to ourselves in that way that you just described, it's such a poor use of energy, you know? And again, we only have so much energy in this lifetime in this body, and we should be more discerning with how we're using it, what we're choosing, what kind of information we're choosing to expose ourselves to that could affect our mental peace. And having that sense of peace is an important part of talking about aging well, because I just noticed that so many people that I treat and like even in this conversation with yourself, there's so much mental anguish about aging, and it's illogical. We are not a logical society about this, and I think we should spend some time really thinking through like how we got here and is this really the direction that, is this really our, the vision for ourselves? Is this it?

Missy Modell:
Do you feel there is more pressure on women?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
It seems like that.

Missy Modell:
Why do you think?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
It seems like that's just always been the case. Is that for women or people who identify as feminine, at least there's always been, well, let me say it this way, I think that for people that identify as feminine, it's a natural desire that goes with sort of that yin energy, that feminine yin energy, to love beauty and sparkly things and to be drawn to that which is beautiful, right? I think we all have that within ourselves, and if we were, define that as like an inner masculine and feminine, we all have that, and the inner feminine energy is interested in that aspect of life, beauty, sparkly thing. We like sparkly things. That's why when we're little, we play with lipstick and our mom's jewelry and things like that, right? There's a natural draw towards beauty. I feel like it's good to recognize that it's okay to love beauty and to love to evoke that in yourself or to try to cultivate that within yourself. I think that where it goes off a little bit is the way that our value is assigned to an external definition of beauty. That's where it kind of goes off the rails. But to be interested and to like to feel beautiful and want to be beautiful, I don't think anything wrong with that. It's when the external definition comes into play, that's where the problem is, because who's defining that? And usually, it's based on your culture. And I think that for our Western culture, it's a very youth-obsessed culture. So I think you see that a little bit more with men. It's just directed at different things, like they're more concerned about hair loss. We are too, but maybe not to the degree that men are. For us, it's skin, slimness of figure, things like that, yes.

Missy Modell:
I feel like, for you, I can't even imagine how many people ask you about Botox because that just is such a part of our beauty vernacular, and I think we're seeing it as a standard these days in terms of maintenance and how people are even treating as like a monthly regimen like that is part of their, or not monthly, it's part of like how they operate in the world, like wanting to be line-free and living in this TikTok-obsessed world where everyone I see has filler or Botox, and it makes me feel like I look wrong, truly.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
It's so weird because they're, on the one hand, they're obsessed with authenticity.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Obsessed. You can't be on TikTok and get views if you're not being just your authentic person, yet they're obsessed with these cosmetic procedures that change the way you look artificially. It's such a weird, what's the word? Paradox. It's such a weird paradox.

Missy Modell:
And it's like their authenticity is telling the truth. I did this, and this, I'm pulling the curtain back, but it's also creating this really bizarre model of what a woman or feminine-leaning person should appear like. Yeah, so that's what I battle with. How do you respond to that? Because you're really forging a revolution in so many ways, and you're advocating for things that need to be taught, and I think may be difficult for people who are getting needled up to maybe accept. What would you want to tell these people?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
I think that where I come from is, because I love and am so obsessed with traditional Chinese medicine, so if you hear me say TCM, that's what it stands for. I mean, I fell in love with TCM because of what's the sort of principles behind it, and, which is to follow nature. Like nature is supreme in Chinese medicine. Everything that we do, everything that we understand about the human body and even the world around us, is by observing nature closely, and venerating, respecting nature also, and looking to nature for guidance, because nature runs seasons and cycles, and so do we. So we can find guidance, wisdom, and health through looking into nature, because Chinese medicine is so nature-based, and I say nature-based and not natural because I feel like we've sort of lost the meaning of what natural means, but if we say nature-based, then when you think about things like filler especially, that is literally injecting something that I don't even know what some kind of thick hyaluronic acid at best, and something that is artificial and permanent and at the other extreme into your body. It's a wild idea to me that, as someone who works with the body and understands the body from this natural perspective, it's just odd to even think about putting filler into your body. It's odd, and yet it's so normal and typical. But I find it odd coming from my understanding of the body and the way that I work with it. I don't know. Does that make sense?

Missy Modell:
It, completely. And I even read your mission statement, which I wrote down, its beauty, and I assume wellness, or I don't know if you like the word wellness, you can get into that after, for your whole self unchained from weight youth or trendy products, which I love so much.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
You don't often hear people talking about Chinese medicine and beauty necessarily more and more these days because of facial Gua sha especially. But usually, when you think about Chinese medicine, you think about pain relief or fertility treatment or something like that. But the reason why I like bringing Chinese medicine into the conversation about skincare and beauty is because the way that Chinese medicine views a person is that you are full, you are someone that is born, you come into this life full of circulation, essence. We have this, there's a material in your body that we call essence. You come full of these things into this life: blood, Chi, essence, right? And that animates you as a human body, and it allows for your body to function as a vessel, for your energy, for your life force, for your spirit. And so when you look at yourself through that lens, you're full of all of these beautiful aspects of life and nature. And so when you're thinking about getting older, you need to think about these things that are internal already to you and cultivating that and increasing and supporting these things that you came with. In other words, you don't have to look outside to feel better, look better. To me, there's something off about that, and there's something not quite true about that. We've been taught that's true because that's all we've been taught. But if you really think about it, as human beings are so full of potentials that we never tap into or know how to tap into. It's kind of like how they say you're only using like 10% of your brain. We're only exploring 10%, if that, of our whole being. And when you think about what is a human body from a Chinese medicine perspective, it's full of these like, genius systems, and like, how do, how am I even alive and running as a human body? Like you're thinking about all these things that are within you that make it possible for you to run through your day, you know, doing your life mission, being in your creative pursuits. And these are the things that matter, right? But when we get older and your friends are talking to you about Botox, like you're not thinking about those things, but they're equally as part of the human experience, as, you know, your skin. But these things that animate you, that, your energy, your life force, energy is so important in Chinese medicine, and that's something you always have, you always did have it, you can cultivate it. You can also waste it, that's a choice that can be made or unknowingly, but it's in your control, and everything that you need, you have. You don't need to buy $5,000 worth of whatever, Botox, fillers, retinol. It's not out there. It's in here. And if we understood more about that, I think that we wouldn't feel so mentally anguished all the time as, especially as we get older.

Missy Modell:
I mean, it's true, even for me, and I get served it all the time on Instagram ads, even my friends telling me their nighttime, morning routines. And I feel like I'm, I don't use Retinol. I don't, I feel like I have a very basic routine, but it's this feeling like I'm never doing enough, which I feel like is very counterintuitive to the TCM modality.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
I do hear that a lot from people that it's so hard because everybody else is doing it. So there's this pressure of feeling like, Well, if I don't do all those things and I'm going to hang out with my friends, and I'm going to look like the oldest one.

Missy Modell:
Yes.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
That makes me so sad. You know, there's things that go on in culture that is just so unfortunate, in my opinion. Yeah, I hate hearing that because I don't know what I can do about that...

Missy Modell:
Do what you're doing.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
You know what I mean?

Missy Modell:
I think it's literally doing what you're doing. And I also find that the more work people do, the older they look, which is actually ironic.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Let's talk about that, because that's something people don't talk about on TikTok, which is that I think that standard thing people do is Botox and fillers, right?

Missy Modell:
And now the Buccal, what do you call it? The.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Oh, the buccal fat removal? Yeah, that's.

Missy Modell:
Yes.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
That, and then there's more conversation now about getting facelift surgery younger and younger because the procedures have improved and evolved from where they were ten, fifteen years ago. And I follow a lot of plastic surgeons on YouTube because I'm interested in how they talk about their work. I'm interested in what they're doing and what kind of results are possible through that, because I like to share my work. Against hmm, could I use ... and needles? And, you know, it'll take some time. It'll take a time period to gain those results, but I also don't have to cut you open.

Missy Modell:
You're like a chef that can have a meal at a restaurant and replicate it at home, but healthier.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Yeah, like I'm trying to figure out, Wait, I think I could probably do that because, for instance, I think that you can actually improve tools and practices from Chinese medicine. You just have to know how to do that and understand why cheek volume changes in the first place, and I feel like I'm getting on a tangent here, but the, for, what were we saying before that?

Missy Modell:
We were talking about, you look older the more you do.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Oh, yes, you look old, okay. So then I think that the one thing that you don't look older the more work you do is the facelift surgery, because it's just a straight pullback, but you have to cut yourself open, and you have scar lines that you have to hide. I mean, there's a pro and a con to everything, but this, the non-surgical procedures, the fillers, the Botox, you don't have maybe lines, but that's not what makes you look younger, is not having lines. Because when you see a face full of Botox that doesn't move, that doesn't say young.

Missy Modell:
Or vibrant or alive.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
No, that's not communicating youthful, it's just communicating no lines. Does that make sense? Because we're not just a two-dimensional frame of ourselves when we interact. If I meet you for lunch, you're not seeing me as a two-dimensional person with no lines. You're seeing the inner, you're seeing me talk and make expressions, and you're interacting with me on an energetic level. And so if you have Botox to the degree that your expressions don't come through, to me, that reads as aged because, in a negative way, you've, A, lost movement, which is the opposite of what we ever want for you in TCM, is to lose movement. We always want you to be full of good, healthy movement of circulation. In this case, when I say movement, I mean your muscle movement. We want your muscles to function because that's what they're designed to do, and if you stop their movement, you're obstructing the healthy flow of energy. And you're also creating a situation where, if things stop moving, then they're building up stagnation, so you're closer to stagnation than you are to movement, and we don't like that in Chinese medicine. We want everything to stay moving because that's what life does. We want to be like life, like nature. So when you present without movement of your expressions because you're trying to prevent lines, then you're holding back a part of yourself that doesn't, to me, come off as useful looking, nor does it come off as beautiful to me. It just, it feels like you just have the absence of lines.

Missy Modell:
Do you feel like TCM could keep you looking, obviously, it can, but I want you to say it, keep you looking youthful enough that it would help people not want to do Botox?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
I do think that it presents an option that people don't realize is there because a lot of people who come and get facial acupuncture and do Gua sha at home or with us, they're happy with what that work can do. Now, can we completely lock down your 11 lines the way that Botox could? No, we cannot create that level of paralysis. Therefore, we cannot erase the line through paralyzing the muscle in the same way that you can with Botox. We can't do that. But what we can do is we can relax those muscles, we can restore like the suppleness to that tissue, because when you're constantly using a muscle, you, your shoulders and neck, like when you're constantly overusing, I should say, a muscle, then the texture of that tissue changes. It becomes harder, more closer to, let's say, beef jerky and further away from, say, filet mignon. And we want your tissues feeling like filet mignon, right?

Missy Modell:
... Beef.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
So not like jerky. So when you're overusing a muscle like ... or your brow muscles or your neck or shoulder muscles, then the texture of those tissues underneath the skin changes. So we can use needles, we can use a Gua sha tool, we can use cups to change that, and that will change the appearance of the surface of your skin. It will soften the look of lines. Some people are really happy with that result. They're not looking for the total freeze. But I know that even, that these days, Botox people are doing more like baby Botox or just less Botox so that you can get through acupuncture. Why not do that through acupuncture and tame the movement of your muscles versus like actually locking them down? Like you don't have to lock down your muscles to soften lines or to improve the appearance of skin.

Missy Modell:
I just had a wild thought, and I don't know if there's any truth in this, but do you feel like it's society wanting to lock women down? Like we physically are not able to move our face, we're able to do less, express ourselves less? Is there anything in that, do you think?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Well, I think it's unfortunate that, as people who are socialized a certain way and because of that socialization experience life in a more limited way, i.e., experiencing life where people regard our value as more dominantly in our appearance than in our capabilities, I think that's unfortunate and limiting. So it sucks that, for me, if I was to feel like I need to get Botox and feel I'm limiting my now my expression or lockdown in my expression, it's just unfortunate. Like I'm already living that way. I don't want to have more of that personally, you know, that's just me. Everyone has the right to choose what they want for their own well-being or their own, they can choose to age any way you want to age, and it's all valid. That's just me. That's me as a Chinese medicine practitioner; I don't want that, and I think that a lot of people don't but didn't know that there was any other option. But there are, I'm here to tell you that there are.

Missy Modell:
And something that I want to go back to is, you know, the idea that everybody's doing it, so you should, too. Something you speak a lot about, and that is such an important conversation to have, is the appropriation of TCM and Gua sha, specifically by white women kind of shepherding these practices, not paying homage at all to those who have started it. So what do you want people to know? For people who have purchased a tool from a non-TCM practitioner and have no idea that there's historical and cultural meaning behind it? What do you want people to know?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Well, first, I'll say that it's not white women as a total population.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, of course.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
It's more that there's something that happens in our culture. When something comes forward and becomes trendy, like whether it's from fashion or music, or in this case, wellness, and beauty, and in this case from the East Asian culture, then I think that a lot of people don't realize that some of the things that we're doing on a daily basis or trends that we love actually come from somewhere, right? And like where those trends come from, like in this case, from East Asian culture, there's a whole body of people that have lived with it, their culture is, there are, these practices are embedded in our culture. And I think it's just important for people to realize that because, I mean, for one thing, I've definitely been, is it, whatever the equivalent of mansplain to about Gua sha or like things that come from my own culture, and I'm ..., I know that, and I think that's just like a weird experience when you're me or someone else who comes from East Asian culture or anyone who is a person of color understands this. And I think it's just more letting people who isn't a person of color know that we as a population often experience things that come from our culture being raised up by others outside of our culture, and that feels weird. It feels weird to be like explained back to, for people to explain our own cultural practices back to us. That's weird.

Missy Modell:
And sometimes incorrectly.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
You know? And often incorrectly because you don't come from it. And you know, when it comes to facial wash, on facial cupping specifically, there's two issues. One is that these come from East Asian culture, and if you grew up with an East Asian family, you're probably familiar already with these practices, and you might be familiar with these practices as health, healing modalities and not necessarily cosmetic. And, but secondly, and probably more importantly, these belong to a medicine practice: Gua sha and cupping, acupuncture, and herbal Chinese herbal therapy, which, by the way, is now everywhere. I don't know if you've seen there's such a growth of like herbal tinctures and things, and people just whipping it up and selling it. These are all things that belong to a medicine, just like Western medicine. It's a, it's an, by the way, an older system of medicine than Western medicine that requires training. We do backbreaking amounts of training to become licensed to legally practice, to put our hands on you, to put a needle in you, to put a Gua sha tool on you. We have to train and become licensed to do that. That takes a minimum of three years on average, somewhere between 4 and 6. So what people don't realize, and what I think they should know is, if you want to use Chinese medicine to better your health, please look for a trained Chinese medicine practitioner for guidance. How do you know that who you're listening to is a Chinese medicine practitioner? There, in this part of the world, we're called acupuncturists, so it's the same thing. And, but that's a little misleading because we do more than just stick needles in people. We also prescribe ..., we do cupping, we do Gua sha. But look for someone who's trained and practices because once you do the training, it's not enough. Then you've got to put those things that you learn into practice and gain clinical experience. That's when someone becomes eligible, in my opinion, to guide you in health advice. You should not take health advice from influencers or people who are not trained. It's great if you want to learn about ..., cupping was done by someone's grandma, or how someone loves to put like goji berries in their soup because that's what Mom always did. That's great. Those things, that's food, that's learning about how cupping, the context of cupping within a culture. But if someone's telling you, you should do this for your pain, or you should do that for some physical condition to heal it, you should only listen to people who are trained because it's a safety issue. It's for your well-being and your safety. And I think that's what people don't recognize. Could you do something harmful with Gua sha? Yes, you absolutely can. And if you, for most of the type of facial Gua sha you see online, it's probably not an issue, right? It's probably not an issue. You're probably not going to harm yourself. But what's the line between too much and just enough, or technique that's so light you're not worried about it at all? What's the difference? What's the line? That's where training comes in, and that's where it's really important to look for trained practitioners. So that's what I would say because I see TCM getting really big, and that's awesome. I love that people are learning to embrace TCM and learning the amazing benefits that it offers you, right? Because it fills in the gaps. I want people to access TCM, but I want you to do it safely and with your well-being in mind. And practitioners are trained to look after your well-being and to create no harm, just like doctors, just like you would never listen to your girlfriend tell you how to take antibiotics. You would listen to your doctor. It's the same thing with Chinese medicine practices, especially. I would argue herbs can and are often as powerful as an antibiotic. That's why you need to always see someone trained if you want to use herbal medicine to heal. I'm worried about a lot of the things that I see happening right now with Chinese herbs because people don't recognize these things are powerful. There are people that train for years to be able to practice this stuff, and it's just out there like no big deal, and it is a big deal.

Missy Modell:
And you have such an incredible library of content that people should be watching. And you also.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Myself and my colleagues.

Missy Modell:
Exactly.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
The whole community of TCM colleagues. We're out there. You can find us. Look for us.

Missy Modell:
And we'll make sure to link some after this, too, because you're always shouting out amazing people that I follow as well, because of you.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Oh, yeah. Aren't they great?

Missy Modell:
Yeah, they're amazing. And they have the Sandra stamp of approval. So like, I immediately trust that. So just walking away today, if people wanted one tip just for, well-aging or feeling comfortable in kind of rebelling against the system that's been upheld for so long, what would you say to them? What's your favorite tip? I don't know if it's a tool or a mindset or just anything as it relates to well-aging.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
One I would say is that I think of aging as the accumulation of neglecting your self-care. So it's not an inevitability. I think the more that you take the time, make the commitment and the effort to do basic things that you don't have to spend a lot of money on, make sure that you're getting deep quality sleep as many nights as you can, and if that's not happening for you, fix it. That might mean seeing an acupuncturist or seeing your doctor, or it might mean going to a professional, but fix your sleep. And do you see what I mean? That's not something you necessarily have to buy a supplement for. If a supplement helps you, great, but if it doesn't, seek help, because that's really important is to have deep quality sleep frequently. Know how to take care of the basics of your body. Your body needs certain basics like sleep, like right nutrition, and, right nutrition isn't necessarily what other people tell you it is, you know? It's not necessarily vegan, it's not necessarily keto. It's, and this is what I think is difficult for people, but if I give you the Chinese medicine wisdom, everybody, every body has a different need. So everyone's different. Your needs, someone might do really well with vegan, but another person might do awful, right? So it's about knowing that there are different ways that people need to take care of themselves and to know thyself and figure out what is right for your body. And that just because someone is out there hawking a trendy diet doesn't mean it's right for you. This goes for skincare as well. So these are nutrition, good sleep, movement, and exercise, important. These are the basics. We should spend time on that. Outside of that, don't overthink health. I think people are overthinking it these days. For instance, I know that cycle syncing is a really popular thing, and I think that the positive thing about a concept like cycle syncing is that it makes you want to learn about your cycle, but don't overdo it, like you don't need to like keep track of is today 10 or 16 and do different things all the time. In Chinese medicine, we say just learn to let go of anguish, that's an important part of healthy menstrual cycle and feeling good all month. But just don't, my point is, don't overthink it. We don't need to overthink our health, and if, because that can create stress too, right? And then specifically with skin, if people are hoping for a skin and aging-specific tip, it's focus on your neck. Your neck is to me, the more I treat patients, the more I'm like, there is so much going on in our necks that affects what happens in our face, but also affects what happens to our health, including our immune health. The state of your neck, I think is attached to how strong your immune system is running. I know this sounds like a crazy,

Missy Modell:
No.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Pseudoscience idea to some people from the medical field, probably, but trust me, like there is a connection. And if we bought, if we had the money to study this in a research study, I know we would find connections between the state of a neck, the healthy state of a neck, and a person's internal health, specifically in immune health. So take care of your neck, spend time and energy, making sure that it's as supple as possible, that it's free of excessive tension and stiffness and hardness. And so take care of your neck and the rest will start to take care of itself, that's what I think. And then also keep your skin supple with good hydration, I think. And if you're not using a hydrating mist, start. It's not expensive, you can use distilled water, but just start hydrating your skin with an actual fluid and not just creams. I like a fluid mixed with an oil, I think that combo is a magical duo. I think that you, if you, you can't just use a hydration mist alone, nor should you use an oil alone. I think you need to combine the two. And it's a magical formula that is game-changing for your skin because it's feeding it with what it's missing, which is hydration that can seal, that you can seal in with an oil.

Missy Modell:
This is wild. So you heard it here first. The neck is the new microbiome.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
It's everything.

Missy Modell:
It's everything.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
You got to make sure your neck is good.

Missy Modell:
Oh, my God. That is, so last question.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Yes.

Missy Modell:
What are you sorry for apologizing for?

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
I've thought about this. It's a tough one. I think that if I look back on my younger self is where I used to do a lot more apologizing. I definitely don't do as much in my older years, and I'm close to 50 now. So I'm here to tell you that one of the most wonderful things about getting older is you just stop apologizing for everything, and you know when is the right time to apologize. It's not to say you never apologize, but you know when is the right time to offer an apology and when you don't need to because you feel confident about yourself in the situations that you move through. But I think when I was younger, I would say that I would apologize a lot for having needs, you know, like having certain kinds of emotional needs or just having the need for something that you didn't want to ask someone else for, you know? So I think sometimes when you're younger, if you especially if you're the type that's like a people pleaser or if you are like an empath or you're, you focus more on taking care of other people's wellness and well-being more than your own, then you, if you're that kind of person, you might relate to feeling like you always have to apologize because you have a need, you know? So I think that's something I did when I was younger than I no longer do, and would advise people in their youth to just think about it. I mean, that's the thing about getting older that you just, you're not going to have get these things right necessarily when you're young, and that's the value of being older. And, you know, we've got to give the older value, and that's a major piece of value about getting older, and aging, is that I wouldn't give up for the world the kind of self-confidence that I have as an older person than I did in my 20s and 30s. I would never give that up to go back to that time. I don't feel like I need to look like I did back then for that reason, because there's something that I can identify that is of great value as an older person, and that's what it is.

Missy Modell:
I love that. Where can people find you? They want to follow you.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
On Instagram, TreatmentbyLanshin. Lanshin.com. TikTok, LanshinSkin, I think. Youtube, Lanshin. Lanshin, Lanshin everywhere.

Missy Modell:
Lanshin, Lanshin! Well, thank you so much, and thank you to everyone that's listening. Don't forget to like, and subscribe, and share this podcast with anyone you think would be interested in this really important conversation, and who wants to take a more natural well-aging approach to their life. Thank you so much, Sandra.

Sandra Lanshin Chiu:
Thank you.

Missy Modell:
Thank you for listening to Sorry for Apologizing, brought to you by Rescripted. If you enjoyed this week's episode, be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our amazing guests. To stay in the know, follow me on Instagram and TikTok or head to Rescripted.com, and don't forget to like and subscribe.

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