Women's Health Mavericks_Traci Keen_Mate Fertility: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Women's Health Mavericks_Traci Keen_Mate Fertility: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Abby Mercado:
Hi, I'm Abby Mercado, Co-founder and CEO of Rescripted, former VC investor and ever entrepreneur, fierce advocate for women, and mom of IVF twins. Welcome to Women's Health Mavericks, a podcast dedicated to shining a light on the people who are moving the needle when it comes to women's health and wellness. From inspiring entrepreneurs and innovators to leaders of big brands defining culture to movers and shakers of biosciences companies dedicated to treating women well. Introduce you to the people, the ideas, and the businesses that are changing the face of women's health in America and across the globe. With these changemakers on our side, the future of women's health is bright. Now let's get into it.

Abby Mercado:
Good morning, Women's Health Mavericks listeners. Today, I'm so excited to introduce you to Traci Keen, the CEO of Mate Fertility. While not featured on her LinkedIn profile, Traci's background and education is in graphic design and fine arts. When she realized she had a knack for numbers and could wield a mean spreadsheet, she moved into finance and has been improving and growing businesses ever since. Mate Fertility is a clinic dedicated to increasing access to care for the 1 in 6 who have infertility. Only 8 in 100 people who need fertility care ever walk through fertility clinic doors. I wanted to chat with Traci about the changes the fertility industry desperately needs in order to efficiently and effectively build families. My episode with Traci exudes themes of inclusivity and empathetic leadership. A few of my favorite things, and I think you'll really enjoy it.

Abby Mercado:
Traci Keen, one of my absolute most favorite people in the fertility industry. She is brave, courageous, ambitious. She's a lifelong learner and she's a listener. Welcome to my podcast, my friend. So happy to have you today.

Traci Keen:
Abby, so good to see you. Thank you for having me. Yay.

Abby Mercado:
Well, let's just start it off. Tell us about Traci. Who is Traci? What do you do? What's your role? Where did you come from? How did you get here?

Traci Keen:
Oh, man, that's such a long and winding story. So who is Traci? I am the CEO of Mate Fertility, a member of the LGBTQ community. I started out my career in the financial industry, so you can obviously see how I got to the fertility industry. It's just clear lines, you know, just kidding. I always like to say that mental gymnastics is my favorite sport and I'm an intellectually curious person and a lifelong learner. And this industry, if you asked me, the fertility industry, if you asked me about 3 or 4 years ago if I thought I'd be the CEO of a fertility company, I would have been like, wrong tea leaves, next person. But given my background and given the business model that we're doing, and giving the nature of how big this problem is, it is a never-ending curiosity and intellectual journey to try to help figure out a solution for all the problems facing this industry.

Abby Mercado:
Yes. Okay. So all the yes. And I'm so excited. Just like digging to meet what you guys are doing. It's all about increasing access, which is something I'm just also so super passionate about. Before we go there, I want to touch on how you studied graphic design and fine art in college.

Traci Keen:
Oh yeah. Okay. So let me go back to the beginning because I didn't even fully answer your question about who I am and where I'm from. So I actually grew up in the rural south, and then I went to college in Boston and I was there and I was humming along at my very expensive private school that I had taken out student loans because I thought that was the right thing to do. Nobody taught us about these things when I was in college. Maybe they're doing a better job now. I doubt it. And I call my dad in a hot panic like my junior year because I hadn't declared a major. I was at a liberal arts school and he said, you know, Trace, just go with whatever you're closest to because you're not going to get a job in that anyways. And I was kind of like, huh? Like, okay. And that happened to be graphic design and fine art. So I had taken liberal arts college. I had taken a bunch of classes, philosophy, math, all the spectrum of things, but I had a high concentration in typography and design and painting and drawing. And so that's what I got a degree in. I graduated school in 2003 college and the economy was super hot and I had a ton of student loan debt and I was like, I'm never going to pay this off in the arts. And I happened to be really good at math. And I took a test and I got called in for an interview at this firm called Investors Bank and Trust. And they were hiring just slews of custody fund accountants. And that's the person that prices mutual funds. But I didn't have an accounting background and the woman that was interviewing me was like, we don't normally hire people with arts degrees because you have to go through an SEC accounting program and you're at a clear disadvantage. But if you want to try it, you can. You get a test every other Friday, and if you fail, you get fired on the spot. So like, may the force be with you. And I made it through. And then my first job, I sat on Eaton Vance's desk, fixed income funds and pricing mutual funds. It was nuts. I was, I think, one of three women on the entire floor of men. And then I started doing trade ops and back and middle office operations. And I then moved into more analytics and controller work at another boutique firm when that bank was bought by State Street. And from there, I went on to become an agnostic consultant, did operational assessments of businesses, and then would help them optimize. And I ended up unwinding restructuring a number of businesses as well. And I had just done some work with a logistics company that was relocating from Boston to Austin, and they wanted me to move to Texas. And I was like, That's not for me. And I came across Mate, and I was pretty burnt out on consulting post-COVID, and it was still during COVID actually. And I was really impressed and thought, hey, this startup world is a lot like consulting, but I get to concentrate all my energy into one problem, and it ended up being a really good home for me and the rest is history.

Abby Mercado:
Yay! All right. Well, one more kind of icebreaker. So I know you obviously. So I know that you're a lifelong learner, but the listener might not know that about you, so I would love to know. So you have mentioned to me that even while working in full-time jobs, you often picked up part-time jobs just to learn new things. What's like the wildest part-time job you've ever had?

Traci Keen:
I think the one that surprises people the most is so when I was finishing up the work that I was doing with that logistics company and I kind of was waiting to see what I was going to do next, I have always been curious about construction. I had actually consulted with a number of construction and architecture firms, and so I got in touch with a friend of mine who was a general contractor, and I was like, listen, I don't want to stare at spreadsheets. I just want to take a little bit of time and learn something new. And so he put me on site and taught me how to do demolition and framing. And I did that for about four months just because I was curious. I was like, I want to learn something. I want to do something tactile. And so I've learned construction. I've also done photography when I was working in the financial industry back in Boston on the weekends; I would do child photography, pregnancy photography, and weddings just to keep that side of my brain, like going. Yeah, I've always just picked up stuff on the side.

Abby Mercado:
That's so interesting. I think I often look to you for leadership lessons on LinkedIn and whatnot, and just when we see each other at conferences, what do you think the importance is just as a leader using kind of those two different sides of your brain, and it sounds like you are very good at exercising the artistic side of your brain and kind of the tactile and that side, but also like the quantitative. Can you speak to that at all, just in terms of being a leader and leading an organization?

Traci Keen:
Yeah, I mean, I think that it gives me more areas to draw from and more room to like, create synapses, right? Or like connectivity with different people because everybody thinks a little differently. And I think one of the things that I really think a lot about is what are we doing and how do we take things that we've learned in other places and apply them in new areas. So it's not having to invent and like come up with entirely new ways of doing things so much as it is new ways of applying things. And also, I love analogies. I feel like they're so helpful when you're trying to contextualize dense information for people. So oftentimes, I'm sure you've been in meetings and you're like explaining something and it makes perfect sense to me. But you see that look on people's faces, and I'm like, okay, let me draw an analogy that a nurse could relate to or someone who used to be in a different industry. You know, we have all kinds of employees at this company and they have winding histories as well. So how do we connect with people where they are? I always feel like it's our job as leaders to lower the drawbridge if you will, and invite people over and maybe not necessarily expect people to just meet you where you are all the time. I think a big part of my job is to say like, okay, where is everybody, and how do I meet them where they are? Because then it feels a lot more like inclusive and collaborative.

Abby Mercado:
Oh, I love that. Where is everybody? And that's just really good. Okay. I hope my coach may heard that one. She would love that. Well, cool. Well, let's dive into women's health and family building. Tell us just all the things about Mate Fertility, the company that you run. And I should also disclose I am a small investor and just want to disclose that.

Traci Keen:
Always disclosing. I mean, look at us following the letter of the law. Yeah. So Mate Fertility was really born from this notion and this idea that there's a huge gap between supply and demand in this industry. So in 2021, I always use this number because it's shocking to me every time I say it. In 2021, we did about 300,000 IVF cycles in this country, and just to meet demand, we would have needed to do 3 million. That means that 2.7 million cycles were just left on the table. And when we look at how the industry was built, and this is not a criticism, it's just literally that it was built in a certain way that wasn't to accommodate the tremendous increase. I don't think anybody knew that inf; there'sertility would be where it is today. But, you know, nothing happened in the past 42 years that adapted and accommodated increasing that supply side. And even today, when we look around the fertility industry, most everyone is competing for those same 300,000 cycles. And the Mate Fertility model is more structured around this notion that while we always hear the financial considerations having to do with fertility. Geography is actually the number one limiting factor, of course, followed pretty immediately by financial. And so there is an ethos here that to increase access, we need to do it geographically and financially. And then also we need to make it a comfortable consumer experience. That's not as you know, there's a lot of bias in all kinds of health care, but especially in fertility. You know, you look at the way that consents and things like that are written. It's not super inclusive. There's a lot of assumptions being made. So our model is really a business model innovation. We partner with OBGYNs to upskill and enable them to perform full spectrum fertility services, because, naturally, who do people want to go to when they want to talk about infertility, their ob-gyn? And we focus on secondary and tertiary markets and we focus on making it more affordable and more inclusive and more geographically accessible.

Abby Mercado:
So, yes, seems obvious. The first person to know about a fertility concern would be an ob-gyn. Why can't we just and these are layoffs, obviously. Like, you know, I think I know the answer to these questions, but I'd love to hear your take on that. Why aren't there more fertility doctors? Why don't we just make more fertility doctors like we only graduate, I don't know, 40 or so from fellowship every year? Tell us about the blockers that are in place.

Traci Keen:
Yeah, I mean, the United States and Canada are the only two countries in the world that have a fellowship. And it's interesting. I think one of the things I'm a big believer we have to like rewind to certain assumptions and correlations that have been kind of embedded into this fertility conversation. You know, when we talk about reproductive endocrinologists, IVF is a really tiny sliver of reproductive endocrinology. But the two have been married together in the conversation. So intrinsically over the years, I think most people, when they hear reproductive endocrinologists if they even know what it is associated with IVF, and that's really kind of not the whole picture, right? It's just this one piece of reproductive endocrinology that's been isolated and it has historically been highly profitable. Obviously, if you look at the concentration of private equity-owned groups, you know, we know that the margins can be tremendously high in that area. And we also have to look historically at the way that the industry is built. I mean, the concentrations of clinics throughout the United States are in the highest net-worth neighborhoods and cities and areas throughout the country. So I think when we look at it, we need to say, okay, how do we enable everyone to practice at the top of their license? Because the fellowships have proven over the past 42 years that they're not really going to do anything to increase the absolute supply. We have more reproductive endocrinologists that retirement age than we have graduating the fellowship. So we have to do something to train more people to be able to perform these services, to start to chip away. And it's not to say that we don't need reproductive endocrinologists. I think sometimes the conversation gets a bit unnecessarily polarized. We utilize and respect reproductive endocrinologists tremendously and think they should absolutely be involved, but they, too, should be practicing at the top and making sure that they're overseeing scalable solutions to the problem at hand. And then utilizing OB-GYNs, who are talented surgeons, to do oocyte retrievals. I always think if we want to look at risk and statistics, let's check out the actuarial data which comes from insurance industries and what rates of malpractice insurance for reproductive endocrinology are 50% lower than they are for OB-GYNs. So risk levels can be determined a number of ways, and I think that's one of them. But I think it all has to be done with a really data-driven quality of care, scalability, repeatability, and oversight.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, I heard at a recent conference somebody kind of draw a comparison to an MFN, and maybe you've heard that comparison. Maybe you can help me broaden that a little bit.

Traci Keen:
Tell me the full scope of that comparison.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. So like, I'll tell you my experience. So I had a twin pregnancy. It was a very unhealthy pregnancy. I was very sick. The kids were delivered early. I was not under the care of an MFN. And when it came to which I should have been like, if you have a twins pregnancy, please MFN like very high risk. But so, at 34 weeks, my OB was essentially didn't really know what to do with me because I was super swollen. I didn't have protein in my urine, so I couldn't be diagnosed with pre-eclampsia. But I was showing pretty much every sign was pointing to the fact that I had pre-eclampsia and I had to deliver immediately. And so I was sent to an MFM rate and she was like, yep, she needs to deliver. And by the way, her son has one kidney. That's a fun fact. So it's time for Abby to deliver. And she wasn't going to be the one to deliver the baby. It was the OB-GYN. It was my OB. So it's almost like the OB is going to is a talented surgeon. Obviously, I'm going to have an emergency C-section, and it shouldn't just all of a sudden be expected for me because it was a high-risk pregnancy that the MFM would deliver. Like she figured out what the problem was, she diagnosed it and then she provided direction to the OB.

Traci Keen:
Yeah, think that's a great comparison. And I think it's really important to you know when we talk about high-complexity cases like fertility, we don't want to do high-complexity cases. Dr. Paco Arredondo, who everybody knows, you know, he says, I want to do banana shakes. You know, he just does IVF. That's all he does. Like he focuses on that. And we have a somewhat similar ethos where we say, Did you use the shakes analysis? We want to do vanilla shakes. We want to do, you know, vanilla cases. We don't want to do high complexity. And we do really try to screen for that and have good established networks. But then also if something arises during some, we have people checking over people's shoulder every step of the way, which is not something that I think is really widespread among medical practices to have, particularly not the fertility one, to have somebody else looking over your shoulder doing QA and QC and saying, Wait, wait, wait, let's pause here, let's do a QA, let's make sure everything's going the way we want it to. So there are not only safeties built into our model where we screen really heavily for anything high complexity at the front but also during we're having two levels of review of what's going on with the patient. So there's the ob-gyn who's delivering the care. We have highly skilled fertility nurses who are reviewing everything and triangulating between them and the reproductive endocrinologists to make sure like, hey, this is good, everybody's good. Red light, yellow light, green light, red light means stop.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. So when we first started talking about Mate, in this conversation, you painted a very good picture as to how bleak the problem is and, you know, a way that I've heard the problem being stated. So this like we lack access to fertility treatments, to fertility care. So eight people, only eight people who need fertility care, and 100 actually ever walk through clinic doors. So yeah, super bleak. Traci's nodding, so that sucks, right? So I would love for you to paint a picture of the world that we live in for access five years from today. Like, what could it look like?

Traci Keen:
I mean, in my mind, one of the superpowers of our model is that it's CapEx light at the Mate Fertility level. So what we're doing is we're partnering with OBs and groups to say, all right, you're in a fertility desert; you have a huge patient base that needs this care. We have a formula. We have the playbook for you to follow to run a really effective, efficient quality fertility center, and we help you do it. It's CapEx light for us because our partners retain ownership, 100% ownership of their practice. We're an MSO management service organization, so we're installing our OS, we're plugging in our playbook and we're saying, okay, we're going to help you do this. We're going to help you do it really efficiently and effectively. And our goal is to roll them out. I always say we're not a franchise, but the easiest way to think about it is to say, okay, how do you roll a lot of something out? You come up with a playbook and you follow it. And that's really the way this industry is going to thrive. And that's really the way the access is going to get reached critical mass because people are going to understand, okay, I can do what my patients need in-house. I can also add to my top-line revenue and I can also deliver high-quality outcomes here. That feels good, you know, and I think that you can't go two hours without finding a fertility desert. You know, you drive out of any highly populated area for more than two hours. Odds are there's not going to be a fertility clinic there. We also have for our clinic model you can do what's called a hub and spoke. So you can set up a main facility and then have satellites so that you're increasing even more geographic access. Because, like I said at the top, I grew up in the rural south, and people don't understand how much is involved in fertility care, right?

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, why does geography matter? Obviously, I know, but tell us.

Traci Keen:
Yeah, geography matters, and I mean because you're having to go 10 - 12 appointments, right? So if you have a job that you have to go to, which most people in this country do, and it's outside of your immediate geography, socioeconomically, that is tremendously limiting. The vast majority of human beings cannot afford to take 12, 15, 25 days off of work to drive 90-plus miles to go get treatment. And it is a very deeply involved process. So it's one of those things where we do our best to make it a consumer-focused approach. We're doing as much as we can remotely for the patient and also to ease the burden on the clinics as well so that they're not administratively overwhelmed. But if you don't have geographic access, nothing else really matters. And that's a big deal, right?

Abby Mercado:
Yes. So moving a little bit on from Mate would love to, obviously, Mate is not just a women's health company. It's a family health company. It's a company that's in the fertility industry. This is mostly a women's health podcast, which is which is awesome. And, you know, all fine and well. And you are presumably passionate about women's health. And so I would love to just get personal with you for just a little bit. So what's kind of one specific women's health and wellness problem that just really hits home with you and why?

Traci Keen:
Yeah, I mean, I think that as an LGBTQ, as a queer woman, it was interesting to me when I was in my 20s going to the OB-GYN, right. and sort of assumptions that are made not based on medical information about like how to treat LGBTQ patients gynaecological. So I remember going to the ob-gyn and they told me I didn't need certain tasks and stuff and in my mind, I don't have a medical education. As we discussed, I have graphic design.

Abby Mercado:
And graphic design education.

Traci Keen:
But I was like, this doesn't seem right. Like I have all the same systems and organs, right? Like, what difference does that make? And it took me a long time to kind of understand and realize that medical doctors, they don't get taught that stuff. I think they get taught more now, but I kind of had to advocate for myself and say, I want this because I think that seems rational. Right? And that was in my 20s it was in the early 2000s. So things have gotten better, but I also have perpetually had to advocate for myself. There's bias around LGBTQ health care. That's why companies like Folks Health exist because people don't feel like they can go to a doctor as a queer person and receive the same quality of care. You know, we know as well that the issues are very prevalent among the BIPOC community and maternal healthcare. We saw what just happened with the Olympic athlete. I mean, even Serena Williams had issues as one of the most famous black women in the world when she was giving birth. It's, you know, so BIPOC underrepresented communities receiving high-quality care, or at least the same care,, is a big deal.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, it's incredibly bleak and it's a big problem. And thank you for sharing that personal story. That must have really pissed you off and made you feel not good. Honestly, I can't even. I mean, that sucks.

Traci Keen:
I won't say it pissed me off. It takes a good bit to get me angry because actually like to give people the benefit of the doubt as human beings. I think most of the time, most things that are offensive aren't intentional. That doesn't make them okay. But at the same time, maybe she never thought about it. Who can say? I don't know. But I think that we as we progress through our lives and as we become aware back to that drawbridge. You know, I would rather, because I'm aware of something kindly lower down a drawbridge and open up the door to a conversation. And who can say maybe just giving people that opportunity or insight as a human being will enable them to think differently moving forward? And I know I Breitenstein, who founded Folks Health. We talk about it a lot. We have to be the people to open the doors sometimes and we have to think differently and do that.

Abby Mercado:
That's a wonderful take. Thanks for that. Traci and I were talking off-camera a little bit earlier about how we're both feeling a little fiery today. So maybe that was me feeling fiery. But thank you for kind of putting a different spin on that and just.

Traci Keen:
Hey, it's okay to get spicy. A friend of mine last week, she was feeling spicy and she had fired off some emails to some of her team. And I was like, I think you should probably stop emailing your team today. Take a break.

Abby Mercado:
Take some deep breathing. It's all good.

Traci Keen:
I'm a little spicy. But I think even that like it's okay to get spicy. I think we have to. But I think if we're then intentional about also being willing and able to have conversations, that's all the difference in the world, right?

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. The teachable moment for that doctor, probably. So I'm curious, what do you think that society has gotten wrong about women's health, maybe specifically fertility? And I'm curious and I think that you're already doing this. It may probably, but how can we work together to just really make it right?

Traci Keen:
I think one of the things that catches my attention about the fertility industry this notion or this sort of, I'll call it a political division because I don't know what else to call it. But a lot of the legacy providers are a little stringent and maybe less apt to think about new things in new ways, right? And I think human beings are, in general, pretty change-averse. But we know the numbers. We know the statistics. We know the diversity in care. Infertility is really grim. We know who's receiving care, and it's not good. And I think that we can do better all around if we're just willing to think outside of what we know if we're willing to be intellectually curious, and if we're willing to collaborate with others, I should absolutely look up the woman's name. But I love listening to Krista Tippett's On Being Podcast. I don't know if you're familiar with that podcast, but there was a poet on there. We used this phrase calling people out all the time, and she said, I actually have changed saying that. And I actually like to call people in instead of call people out. And I think that in the fertility industry, and I've tried to be intentional because our model is different, it is getting people a little bristly about sort of the way it's been done versus where is it heading and how are we going to control it and this and that. You know, I always like to say, let's just call each other in to have conversations that are solution-oriented, because, let's face it, infertility is like taxes. It's going in a single direction and it's not suddenly going to reverse course. It's headed where it's headed. And so I think that we could do a better job of having solution-oriented conversations because at the end, the only people who lose out are the people who want to build families. And that's just simply not okay.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah, I also think that it's really important to, and we've talked about this before, but it's really important, you know, as we think about fertility with regard to women's health, how it really is when you see couples who are in a heterosexual relationship, how it's not just the woman, it's also the man. And we're recording this in late July, and there's all sorts of stuff going on with the Center for Intimacy Justice and the good work that they're doing on advertising for sexual wellness and essentially calling meta in to essentially say that it's not okay to not let Rosy run an ad, but to let another company run an ad on ED. So essentially, like continuing to look at fertility health under the gender lens, we need to all kind of get together and work together on making sure everybody's represented.

Traci Keen:
I couldn't agree more. And I think it's about when we look at it among heterosexual couples and particularly men. I mean, it's shame. It's a lot of shame because it's people not feeling like they're living up to whatever their expectations are from society or for themselves by themselves. And that's just simply it's so destructive. We have a lot of problems as a society. Zoom out from healthcare and there's just a lot going on and people don't feel okay to have real and deep and intimate conversations. But those are the conversations that will kind of give us a lot of freedom. And I think the example you just gave with Rosy, I saw that, you know, the...

Abby Mercado:
Love you, Lindsay.

Traci Keen:
Yes. Lindsay, you go. Thank you for posting that. And when she posted that on LinkedIn, I mean, it's just so obvious when you see that it's okay to post a pretty graphic and suggestive ED graphic. And then, comparatively speaking, what she had been censored for was nothing.

Abby Mercado:
It was like a pink cloud. It was like, this is really okay, guys. Like, let's everybody relax.

Traci Keen:
Yeah. And I mean, it's interesting, too, to see the censorship around, like, using, I forget what it is. I was talking to Ami Gan, who I think she just left OnlyFans. She was the CEO of OnlyFans at a conference we were at in February. And you know, a lot of doctors are migrating over to Onlyfans, which may seem weird, right? Because we all have this association as OnlyFans as an adult entertainment and content platform. But comedians and doctors, particularly female doctors who want to discuss proper anatomy, are going over there to have those conversations because there's no censorship the way that there is on social media. So I think either these large organizations who are, I hate to use this word, but guilty of the censorship, something needs to shift like it's a double standard. We all know the double standards exist. We all know bias exists. I mean, all we have to do is look at AI, and some of the problematic pieces of that are that human bias is integrated into artificial intelligence. And so when we look at these big systems and these advertisers and who's deeming what to be, okay. It just brings a bunch of bigger issues to the surface.

Abby Mercado:
Well put. It's a bit of a, it was spiciness here.

Traci Keen:
I mean, Friday. Long week.

Abby Mercado:
Wow. Amazing. Tracy, you were so wise. As we're wrapping up here today, what is the one thing that you would rescript if you could about women's health and wellness and fertility and anything that pertains to women and growing their families, and what's up down there? What would you do?

Traci Keen:
Oh, what would I do is I would continue to ask questions, and I would encourage other people to ask questions, too. And that includes questions about my own assumptions about things, and keep being curious and keep expanding and keep thinking outside of the box. When we find people who are passionate about doing things like yourself and Lindsay, who you just mentioned from Rosy. You know, we got to stick together because the more of us who are thinking along the same lines and doing what we can to make things better, the better things will be.

Abby Mercado:
Awesome. Think that is a wonderful thing to Rescript, and I really look up to you as a lifelong learner. So Traci, where can people learn more about Mate, and how can people get in touch with you?

Traci Keen:
Yeah, matefertility.com is our website and then obviously, we have the socials at Mate Fertility LinkedIn. Shoot me a message. Believe it or not, I actually reply to almost everybody on LinkedIn. I was just telling somebody this recently and they were like, You're crazy. And I was like, no, they just keep emailing you if you don't reply so or messaging you. So I literally say, oh, I'm not interested right now. Or, like, Thanks for reaching out. I've gotten some amazing messages on LinkedIn that have turned into really fruitful conversations. So that's a great place.

Abby Mercado:
Yeah. So 10,000 messages, get them in Traci's inbox because she will respond.

Traci Keen:
Thank you so much.

Abby Mercado:
Thanks so much.

Traci Keen:
Amazing to see you. Talk to you soon.

Abby Mercado:
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